tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post3411250696198838827..comments2024-03-09T03:06:38.871-08:00Comments on Tartine Bread Experiment: Bench ExamFrancehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-29913713375034695442014-02-09T09:52:09.936-08:002014-02-09T09:52:09.936-08:00i would have to know all that you did to see what ...i would have to know all that you did to see what happened. what bread did you make?Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-28401008229841500912014-02-08T09:04:56.357-08:002014-02-08T09:04:56.357-08:00Well they came out of the banneton perfectly. No r...Well they came out of the banneton perfectly. No rise at all in the fridge. Modest rise during bake. 20 min at 460 covered in a 500 degree preheated pots and 10 min. uncovered baked to internal 208. Fragrance is wonderful and the crust is definitely crisp. Will see what crumb looks like. Not sure how to add photos here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-17590819905405981962014-02-07T17:22:14.423-08:002014-02-07T17:22:14.423-08:00Hey Francis...just wrestled the semolina loaves in...Hey Francis...just wrestled the semolina loaves into banneton. whew...more like ciabatta. The turns in the bowl were a dream. I then left it alone for 2 hrs. Turned it out on to heavily floured counter. All still seemed OK. But then...tried to pick up the divided dough and that was "all she wrote". A mess. I more or less pre-shaped ( dumped into a messy heap) . Left it for 30 min while I scraped off my hands. Gingerly picked up each piece after 30 min and tossed onto more flour. Did a bunch of folds to try and corral a shape. Finally plunked into well-floured banneton. I am glad I made 3 boules and not 2 huge ones. They are retarding and I will see what is what tomorrow. Will post back. Love your pics and descriptions. I have been a bread baker since the 70's and using my Wild Yeast for about 4 years. So inexperience isn't a problem. I am thinking my Bob's Red Mill Semolina needed a lot longer autolyse. With all of my breads I have been doing a 24 hr autolyse of just the flours. Will try that with this formula next as well as decreasing the water. Thanks for your incredible work. Caroline ( sorry to post as anonymous..don't have a Google acct) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-82877272034074748022013-10-28T15:38:58.216-07:002013-10-28T15:38:58.216-07:00less water is a great place to start. it could be ...less water is a great place to start. it could be the brand of flour. but even a few grams less water will ameliorate the situation. hope this helps!Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-65743222521663587182013-10-14T17:24:09.932-07:002013-10-14T17:24:09.932-07:00Hi Francis, congrats for the amazing work. I just ...Hi Francis, congrats for the amazing work. I just tried your city bread recipe now, they are in the fridge proofing. I followed step by step and my dough was way to wet, not quite sure why and what I should do to improve.. Hope i can still make it.. I guess i will find out tomorrow morning after the baking. Next time im gonna try with less water.. Any ideas? <br /><br />Thanks a lot. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06452421662918190858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-66858577652901662222013-05-15T21:33:28.244-07:002013-05-15T21:33:28.244-07:00sweet! im so glad i could help! ;)sweet! im so glad i could help! ;)Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-38519195450128183242013-05-13T17:37:52.775-07:002013-05-13T17:37:52.775-07:00Oh my goodness. What an awesome post you did here...Oh my goodness. What an awesome post you did here and an amazing amount of work you put into this as well!! I thank you for so much for doing this. With all these variations I will be busy indeed. Currently making one as I type. I hope my country loaf comes out as well as yours.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-79554821515113086942012-07-01T11:20:02.515-07:002012-07-01T11:20:02.515-07:00it's a faulty formula. but i did create my own...it's a faulty formula. but i did create my own polenta bread which is included in this 'bench exam' post that works quite well :)Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-18060047516538634452012-04-10T15:50:50.678-07:002012-04-10T15:50:50.678-07:00Hello. I came across this site when I searched Ta...Hello. I came across this site when I searched Tartine Polenta loaf.<br />I am also obsessed with the Tartine cookbook and bake country loaves daily. Yesterday I branched out to the polenta loaf and was amazed at how much added hydration the soaked polenta added to my dough. Do you have a link to your previous tries for this loaf? I kept checking the recipe thinking it was me, but it wasn't and the dough was totally unmanageable. I am now baking it in a pan because it ended up feeling more like a batter. Any advice you can give me on this I would surely appreciate!<br /><br />Thanks, PaulineAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-9019920843116650382012-03-10T09:28:06.952-08:002012-03-10T09:28:06.952-08:00Absolutely stunning blog. And thank you for the d...Absolutely stunning blog. And thank you for the detailed research and documentation. I got here looking for ideas about adding olive oil to my Tartine dough -- an olive walnut version -- and your explanation about using olive oil sounds intuitively right, so I am trying it today.<br /><br />Now I am going to have to read all of your work, which will take some time but should be enjoyable.dgourmethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082059577915340444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-16574661664375957152012-01-12T16:59:38.484-08:002012-01-12T16:59:38.484-08:00Absolutely gorgeous photos! I'm bookmarking t...Absolutely gorgeous photos! I'm bookmarking this post so I can go back and read through all the formulas when I have a free morning and a cup of coffee. But just the photos alone are so inspiring! I just started with Chad's book and have made the basic country bread a few times and am about to put my first loaf of whole wheat in the oven now.Nicolehttp://pinchmysalt.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-92105562004614595142011-11-18T13:22:56.371-08:002011-11-18T13:22:56.371-08:00Wow. The photos. I'm absolutely speechless! Ho...Wow. The photos. I'm absolutely speechless! How beautiful. You should open your own bakery!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-15661849502421929322011-10-25T10:59:07.810-07:002011-10-25T10:59:07.810-07:00Sulpicia, the polenta came out so well. It had a g...Sulpicia, the polenta came out so well. It had a great 'corny' flavor!Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-47389830236729417782011-10-25T10:58:10.089-07:002011-10-25T10:58:10.089-07:00Hi Christy. Yes, the levain is made overnight. I ...Hi Christy. Yes, the levain is made overnight. I bake in the morning. So, I make the levain at midnight, then I'm up at 8 to work on the bread. The first four hour bulk ferment puts us at around 12:40 (4 hours for the bulk ferment, 40 min for the autolyse). After the bench and shape we are looking at about 1pm. Then the extended proof can take us to 9pm for an 8 hour, 11pm for a 10 hour, and so forth.<br /><br />When I plan to bake, and know I will make the levain overnight (generally at midnight is when I make the levain), I count backwards 8 hours, and that's when I feed. So, no, you don't want to feed JUST before you make the levain, the culture will not be strong enough. I generally feed the starter around 4pm for a midnight levain. I have used a culture that was fed 12 hours prior with great success as well. I personally would not use one that was fed less than 8 hours prior, and depending on which starter I use, I would probably not use one that was fed over 12 hours prior.<br /><br />Congrats on your bread! I'm so glad they're coming out well. PS, I score pretty deeply :)Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-47665695865132622952011-10-24T20:08:18.641-07:002011-10-24T20:08:18.641-07:00Oh, and the other question I've always had is ...Oh, and the other question I've always had is this: at what "state" of activity is the starter at it's prime to be used in the pre-ferment. Should I add it in right before the next feeding is due, right after feeding, or somewhere in the middle?Christy Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03339928823957148452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-4777600863243905442011-10-24T18:39:33.130-07:002011-10-24T18:39:33.130-07:00Hi Frankie!
I've been making the bread with g...Hi Frankie!<br /><br />I've been making the bread with good success! No blog posts on it yet but sometime soon, I hope! I also have been playing with the scoring pattern. Nothing as pretty as yours yet but here's to improvement in that area!<br /><br />My main question after this post is the time table. You implement some longer proof times and I'm wondering how you fit that in. It made sense to me that the first 8 hour ferment would be overnight. But now, with these additional 7.5 or 10 hour additonal proofs, how do you schedule it so that you don't end up baking in the wee hours of the morning?Christy Joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03339928823957148452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-50105697532262126632011-10-22T20:46:02.468-07:002011-10-22T20:46:02.468-07:00What an amazing array of breads! The polenta bread...What an amazing array of breads! The polenta bread especially caught my eye. I'll have tot ry it out.Sulpicia (III)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06035502513873251894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-63384705813734887732011-10-20T07:48:05.985-07:002011-10-20T07:48:05.985-07:00Quick Note: to Francis and anonymous regarding fri...Quick Note: to Francis and anonymous regarding friction factor.<br />I hand mix and have found that by adding 14 degrees to my equation(I know this is counter-intuitive) I end up with my DDT(desired dough temp) of 76 degrees.Liz Treenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-19201577320758976972011-10-19T11:23:30.527-07:002011-10-19T11:23:30.527-07:00All I can think to say is STUNNING. Really. Hones...All I can think to say is STUNNING. Really. Honestly. I have never seen more gorgeous bread in my life. I leave here inspired.Tracyhttp://amusebouchefortwo.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-68339904096999260812011-10-18T01:19:59.676-07:002011-10-18T01:19:59.676-07:00Wee, I love putting my dough in the air conditione...Wee, I love putting my dough in the air conditioned living room to ferment. In the kitchen they just blow out of proportion instantly, in the air conditioned room they ferment so perfectly. I can't wait till winter. LOL, you are fastidious! Cold flour and bowl. I will try that. Hey, what do you think of using ice cold water in the starter in months when its really hot? to circumvent feeding it 3x a day?<br /><br />I do love my blog. I've been working a lot lately, so I'm a little behind on both of them actually. Tomorrow is big blog day though. The house is clean, the oven sparkling, all engines are a 'go'. I can't wait! Hope to see you there, and I hope my breads behave for you when you finally make them. I must admit, some of my doughs have been a little cranky. I would love your feedback and to know about any differences that you make, if any, with the formulae!<br /><br />- Frankie<br /><br />- FrankieFrancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-51252170876736074572011-10-17T19:13:11.365-07:002011-10-17T19:13:11.365-07:00Dear Francie,
Thanks for clarifying. 90 degrees hu...Dear Francie,<br />Thanks for clarifying. 90 degrees huh. Well, my kitchen almost year round is about 84-90F! Yeah, I use the fridge a lot, in addition to other laughable, crazy methods I've devised to try to keep the dough cool. So nothing is ever 'scientific' around here LOL, and I over-proof as a rule.<br /><br />In fact, one reason I started trying the Tartine method is because he uses a slightly higher proofing temp than most (the usual 'room temperature' called for is abt 22 degrees celsius, and his is about 25-28), which I can sort of simulate in an air-conditioned room. <br /><br />Re dough temperature, it's as Liz Tree explained, except since you are handmixing, you can leave out the friction factor. Hamelman is more geared towards the professional bakery with their big mixers that would really add heat. I've tried figuring out the DDT using his method of calculation and the conclusion is that given the clime here - hot hot kitchen, warm tap water, I need ice-cold water. So if I want to bother with DDT, I simply take the flour(s) out at the very last minute from the fridge, use the leaven as cold as it can be, use ice-cold water and IF, BIG IF I want to be really good and can remember to, I might even refrigerate the mixing bowl! All this does go some way to keeping the dough cool for a while, I was surprised to find. I also use very cold water to feed the leaven to slow things down. A baker once told me that if you can get hold of very finely shaven ice, you can use that too. Salt also works to slow down fermentation though I've never tried that myself.<br /><br />I don't have a blog but in any case, my breads are really not picture-worthy, trust me :)) BUT when I try out one of your formulas (and I will, just don't pin me down to a date because I get awfully distracted awfully easily), I promise I will give you the feedback.<br /><br />And you - with the timetables and those carefully written formulas and beautifully composed photos - not scientific!!??!? <br /><br />Cheers,<br />WeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-28387694296951264772011-10-17T01:36:33.735-07:002011-10-17T01:36:33.735-07:00Hi Liz! Yes, I have been asked on more than one oc...Hi Liz! Yes, I have been asked on more than one occasion to be more scientific with my bread, and I think I may follow suit. As you know, Tartine does NOT include dough temperatures, and I am following his book. I think that he (Chad) designed the book to be more intuitive than scientific. I cannot imagine why else such a bread icon would not include temps. You are the xxx person this week that has asked for a more scientific approach to my bread, and I must admit, I'm intrigued... I will keep you posted with what I decide to do.<br /><br />I'm glad you had fun in the Bay, and I hope you had some of Farine's olive bread, I would give my first born for that bread (well, not anymore, now that I can make it myself! lol!)<br /><br />Cheers!Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-50112075511957747702011-10-16T21:38:38.505-07:002011-10-16T21:38:38.505-07:00Hi
Back from the Bay. Cheese board(Crispy bagettes...Hi<br />Back from the Bay. Cheese board(Crispy bagettes!!!), Acme and La Farine!! YUm..<br /><br /> But I wanted to share with you: I always take the temp of air, flour and sour dough and then adjust the water temp to get the DDT (desired dough temp). Add the three together and add 14 for the friction of mixing, (your number probably will be different) then take that number away from 304 and you get the number of degrees that your water should be. I learned about this from Hammelman and Leader.<br /><br /> If you want the DDT to be 76 degrees then your four factors( air, water, sourdough and flour) need to average 76. so 76 times 4 is 304. But the friction of mixing adds a few degrees. so you add that to the three set factors (sourdough, flour & air)<br /> for instance:<br />air is 68<br />sourdough is 69<br />flour is 65<br />friction 14<br />total is 216 degrees<br /><br />so 304-216 = 88 so water will be added at 88 degrees.<br />hope this makes sense to you.. of course you have the books and the authors explain it well.<br /><br />But my point is it just takes a second and I feel all scientific when i do it!!!Liz Treenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-4811253224953223202011-10-16T09:56:07.457-07:002011-10-16T09:56:07.457-07:00lol. thats funny wee. umm... its been admittedly h...lol. thats funny wee. umm... its been admittedly hot down in l.a., a heat wave actually for WEEKS. when i bake, it's like 90 degrees out, im not even exaggerating. thats why ive been doing the turn part of the proof outside of the fridge, and the last two hours in the fridge (unless i bake at night when its cool, then i try to do the bulk ferment at room temp). and i generally proof in the fridge.<br /><br />hope this helps. really use the fridge. its the best tool that we have to making great bread!<br /><br />and thanks again for pointing out the snafu. i was totally scrambling up turns x spins x series.<br /><br />send me pix of your bread! im excited to see them!Francehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01123188752355883535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3970320677819739454.post-88355199563578302582011-10-16T03:11:52.248-07:002011-10-16T03:11:52.248-07:00Hi Francis,
i think we were all too awed by the ph...Hi Francis,<br />i think we were all too awed by the photos to have actually started baking haha.<br />what i meant was, what is your ambient room temperature when you proof? mine's very warm and that is sth I always have to be mindful abt. <br />thanks,<br />WeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com